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	<title>Comments on: ABA Formal Op. 08-451 Good News for US-based Independent Contract Lawyers and Hiring Attorneys</title>
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	<link>http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/</link>
	<description>All about the practice of legal research and writing, and how to start and run a successful legal research and writing practice</description>
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		<title>By: Independent U.S. Contract Lawyer Takes On Foreign LPO: Round 2 &#124; legalresearchandwritingpro.com</title>
		<link>http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-102151</link>
		<dc:creator>Independent U.S. Contract Lawyer Takes On Foreign LPO: Round 2 &#124; legalresearchandwritingpro.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 01:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/#comment-102151</guid>
		<description>[...] Handbook describes ABA Formal Op. 08-451 (Lawyer’s Obligations When Outsourcing Legal and Nonlegal Support Services) as &#8220;the first opinion issued by the ABA regarding legal outsourcing.&#8221; However, while [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Handbook describes ABA Formal Op. 08-451 (Lawyer’s Obligations When Outsourcing Legal and Nonlegal Support Services) as &#8220;the first opinion issued by the ABA regarding legal outsourcing.&#8221; However, while [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Former chief CT ethics regulator is gravely misinformed about legal outsourcing &#124; legalresearchandwritingpro.com</title>
		<link>http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-101929</link>
		<dc:creator>Former chief CT ethics regulator is gravely misinformed about legal outsourcing &#124; legalresearchandwritingpro.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jun 2011 21:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/#comment-101929</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve previously explained, in ABA Op. 08-451, Lawyer’s Obligations When Outsourcing Legal and Nonlegal Support [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve previously explained, in ABA Op. 08-451, Lawyer’s Obligations When Outsourcing Legal and Nonlegal Support [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ABA Ethics 20/20 Discussion Draft on Outsourcing is Good News for Freelance Attorneys &#124; legalresearchandwritingpro.com</title>
		<link>http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-101797</link>
		<dc:creator>ABA Ethics 20/20 Discussion Draft on Outsourcing is Good News for Freelance Attorneys &#124; legalresearchandwritingpro.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/#comment-101797</guid>
		<description>[...] Many of these factors are identical to those already noted in Comment 1 to Rule 1.1 (&#8220;[1] In determining whether a lawyer employs the requisite knowledge and skill in a particular matter, relevant factors include the relative complexity and specialized nature of the matter, the lawyer&#8217;s general experience, the lawyer&#8217;s training and experience in the field in question . . . .&#8221;). Additionally, Op 08-451 contained similar warnings, and recommended similar disclosures, for firms outsourcing abroad; those warnings and disclosure requirements are discussed in my August 2008 analysis of Op 08-451. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Many of these factors are identical to those already noted in Comment 1 to Rule 1.1 (&#8220;[1] In determining whether a lawyer employs the requisite knowledge and skill in a particular matter, relevant factors include the relative complexity and specialized nature of the matter, the lawyer&#8217;s general experience, the lawyer&#8217;s training and experience in the field in question . . . .&#8221;). Additionally, Op 08-451 contained similar warnings, and recommended similar disclosures, for firms outsourcing abroad; those warnings and disclosure requirements are discussed in my August 2008 analysis of Op 08-451. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Virginia LEO 1850 is Latest Ethics Opinion to Support Legal Outsourcing &#124; legalresearchandwritingpro.com</title>
		<link>http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-101774</link>
		<dc:creator>Virginia LEO 1850 is Latest Ethics Opinion to Support Legal Outsourcing &#124; legalresearchandwritingpro.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2010 15:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/#comment-101774</guid>
		<description>[...] of New York Commission on Professional &amp; Judicial Ethics, Formal Opinion 2006-3 (2006) and ABA Formal Op. 08-451. Interestingly, LEO 1850 cites the New York City Bar opinion, but doesn&#8217;t mention Op. 08-451. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of New York Commission on Professional &amp; Judicial Ethics, Formal Opinion 2006-3 (2006) and ABA Formal Op. 08-451. Interestingly, LEO 1850 cites the New York City Bar opinion, but doesn&#8217;t mention Op. 08-451. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Solomon</title>
		<link>http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-101534</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Solomon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 04:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/#comment-101534</guid>
		<description>Thank you so much for your comment, dev. According to your website:

&quot;KLS categorize and recover’s the information crucial to sustain our client in making any critical decision for Litigation Matters. To take it in a broader perspective, our legal research comprises of different steps of action, which is set in motion with scrutiny of the particulars of a problem and finally wrap up with a solution and statement of the results of the investigation. We expertise in designing our services as required for our client’s need and budget. We sustain in giving high quality and flexible results to satisfy our client’s business obligations. KLS has made a team of expert attorneys on various databases like Westlaw, Pacer, Lexis Nexis and many other, along with analysis of International, Federal, State or Local aspects of Law. &quot;

You have helped to prove the point I made in &quot;Independent US Contract Lawyer Takes On Foreign LPO&quot; (http://tinyurl.com/yegbjfz) and &quot;Independent U.S. Contract Lawyer Takes On Foreign LPO: Round 2&quot; (http://tinyurl.com/2aeen45).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you so much for your comment, dev. According to your website:</p>
<p>&#8220;KLS categorize and recover’s the information crucial to sustain our client in making any critical decision for Litigation Matters. To take it in a broader perspective, our legal research comprises of different steps of action, which is set in motion with scrutiny of the particulars of a problem and finally wrap up with a solution and statement of the results of the investigation. We expertise in designing our services as required for our client’s need and budget. We sustain in giving high quality and flexible results to satisfy our client’s business obligations. KLS has made a team of expert attorneys on various databases like Westlaw, Pacer, Lexis Nexis and many other, along with analysis of International, Federal, State or Local aspects of Law. &#8221;</p>
<p>You have helped to prove the point I made in &#8220;Independent US Contract Lawyer Takes On Foreign LPO&#8221; (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/yegbjfz" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/yegbjfz</a>) and &#8220;Independent U.S. Contract Lawyer Takes On Foreign LPO: Round 2&#8243; (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/2aeen45" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/2aeen45</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: dev chopra</title>
		<link>http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-101533</link>
		<dc:creator>dev chopra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 03:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/#comment-101533</guid>
		<description>This was saying the obvious
Anyway it is a WTO requirement and a step in the direction of free economy
keep it up</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was saying the obvious<br />
Anyway it is a WTO requirement and a step in the direction of free economy<br />
keep it up</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher B.</title>
		<link>http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-101165</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/#comment-101165</guid>
		<description>The essential problem with outsourcing is the shift of liability.  If the lawyer or firm were to be sued for ineffective assistance of counsel there will be cross claims galore.  The cost of defending such claims would have an impact on the true cost effectiveness of sending this work out.  In the end the value costing would eliminate any savings to the clients.  And, let&#039;s be completely frank here, this type of outsourcing would only help the big firms with their bloated legal business; it does nothing for the small and mid-size firms.  

An alternative would be to give the consumer a choice of outsourcing for lower costs or having American-trained attorneys working for them.  The disclosure would have to be the good, the bad, and the ugly to be fair (none of this half disclosure we have seen in the financial world).  

I am not a fan of outsourcing. That being said, outsourcing is a good thing when it allows more people to afford a bit of &quot;justice.&quot; One of the big problems with outsourcing legal work is that the law is a people business. We interact with our clients; they gain trust in us; and they see that we are indeed working on their case. Clients want to know they are winning or being protected more than they want to know you save them 15% on their car insurance (joke). When their legal work is happening overseas, the client gets none of that, except the discount. Is there value in it, sure. If we took the time to explain completely the nature of legal services to each client I believe most would opt for American representation. If the client knows you understand their case completely and that you take an interest in their welfare, they would likely forego the cost reduction.

What we need to work on is BigLaw costs, or making more lawyers with exceptional ability cost available. I am a proponent of smaller firms with lower overhead and great lawyers. The salary of a good lawyer doesn&#039;t change, the overhead does. If we look at salary vs. cost, we can see that an attorney who bills $250 an hour and can bill 2000 hours they have grossed $500k. If we are big spenders and take out 50% overhead, we still make out at $250k. And $250 an hour is lower than what BigLaw bills out first years. You could bill higher and see bigger numbers (you just have to know the &quot;sweet spot&quot;). I won&#039;t even go into the quality of life you get back.

The problem is not having to send more jobs overseas, it is we need to take bake our legal system from big law firms that charge too much for too little too often.  I now there are great attorneys who work at big firms, but that is more the exception than the rule.  These big firms look for big clients and the people needing justice the most (those under the $100k a year job) go without.  The system has been highjacked and it is ransomed to only those with deep pockets. 

Sending legal work overseas will only make big  firms more profitable because they will not likely pass this cost savings along to their clients.  Our industry will take a hit on its nobility and put even more attorneys out of work, no matter how you spin it.

This whole idea sounds like a Madoff ponzi scheme idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The essential problem with outsourcing is the shift of liability.  If the lawyer or firm were to be sued for ineffective assistance of counsel there will be cross claims galore.  The cost of defending such claims would have an impact on the true cost effectiveness of sending this work out.  In the end the value costing would eliminate any savings to the clients.  And, let&#8217;s be completely frank here, this type of outsourcing would only help the big firms with their bloated legal business; it does nothing for the small and mid-size firms.  </p>
<p>An alternative would be to give the consumer a choice of outsourcing for lower costs or having American-trained attorneys working for them.  The disclosure would have to be the good, the bad, and the ugly to be fair (none of this half disclosure we have seen in the financial world).  </p>
<p>I am not a fan of outsourcing. That being said, outsourcing is a good thing when it allows more people to afford a bit of &#8220;justice.&#8221; One of the big problems with outsourcing legal work is that the law is a people business. We interact with our clients; they gain trust in us; and they see that we are indeed working on their case. Clients want to know they are winning or being protected more than they want to know you save them 15% on their car insurance (joke). When their legal work is happening overseas, the client gets none of that, except the discount. Is there value in it, sure. If we took the time to explain completely the nature of legal services to each client I believe most would opt for American representation. If the client knows you understand their case completely and that you take an interest in their welfare, they would likely forego the cost reduction.</p>
<p>What we need to work on is BigLaw costs, or making more lawyers with exceptional ability cost available. I am a proponent of smaller firms with lower overhead and great lawyers. The salary of a good lawyer doesn&#8217;t change, the overhead does. If we look at salary vs. cost, we can see that an attorney who bills $250 an hour and can bill 2000 hours they have grossed $500k. If we are big spenders and take out 50% overhead, we still make out at $250k. And $250 an hour is lower than what BigLaw bills out first years. You could bill higher and see bigger numbers (you just have to know the &#8220;sweet spot&#8221;). I won&#8217;t even go into the quality of life you get back.</p>
<p>The problem is not having to send more jobs overseas, it is we need to take bake our legal system from big law firms that charge too much for too little too often.  I now there are great attorneys who work at big firms, but that is more the exception than the rule.  These big firms look for big clients and the people needing justice the most (those under the $100k a year job) go without.  The system has been highjacked and it is ransomed to only those with deep pockets. </p>
<p>Sending legal work overseas will only make big  firms more profitable because they will not likely pass this cost savings along to their clients.  Our industry will take a hit on its nobility and put even more attorneys out of work, no matter how you spin it.</p>
<p>This whole idea sounds like a Madoff ponzi scheme idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Independent US Contract Lawyer Takes On Foreign LPO &#124;  Freelance Law Firm </title>
		<link>http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-101158</link>
		<dc:creator>Independent US Contract Lawyer Takes On Foreign LPO &#124;  Freelance Law Firm </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/#comment-101158</guid>
		<description>[...] taken a fair amount of heat for pointing out that ABA Formal Op. 08-451, which states (with some important caveats) that foreign legal outsourcing is... because the same principles that allow firms to send legal work overseas also allow law students [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] taken a fair amount of heat for pointing out that ABA Formal Op. 08-451, which states (with some important caveats) that foreign legal outsourcing is&#8230; because the same principles that allow firms to send legal work overseas also allow law students [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pro Information Center &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Why a Bad Economy is Good News for US-Based Independent Contract Lawyers</title>
		<link>http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-18377</link>
		<dc:creator>Pro Information Center &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Why a Bad Economy is Good News for US-Based Independent Contract Lawyers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/#comment-18377</guid>
		<description>[...] As I noted back in August, independent US-based contract lawyers generally provide unique, individualized services to small firms and solo practitioners, and this work is less subject to commoditization than the document review work for corporations or large firms that forms the majority of legal work that is shipped abroad. Nevertheless, small firms and sole practitioners are no doubt facing at least as much pressure to trim their fees as large firms are experiencing; in fact, the individuals and small companies that comprise the client base of many small firms are likely even more cost-sensitive than the big companies that are represented by BigLaw. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] As I noted back in August, independent US-based contract lawyers generally provide unique, individualized services to small firms and solo practitioners, and this work is less subject to commoditization than the document review work for corporations or large firms that forms the majority of legal work that is shipped abroad. Nevertheless, small firms and sole practitioners are no doubt facing at least as much pressure to trim their fees as large firms are experiencing; in fact, the individuals and small companies that comprise the client base of many small firms are likely even more cost-sensitive than the big companies that are represented by BigLaw. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Significance of Carlson v. Xerox for Independent US-Based Contract Lawyers &#124; legalresearchandwritingpro.com</title>
		<link>http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-17159</link>
		<dc:creator>The Significance of Carlson v. Xerox for Independent US-Based Contract Lawyers &#124; legalresearchandwritingpro.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 05:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2008/08/28/aba-formal-op-08-451-good-news-for-us-based-independent-contract-lawyers/#comment-17159</guid>
		<description>[...] court squarely rejected this argument, citing (among other authorities) ABA Formal Op. 08-451  for the proposition that an attorney may bill a contract lawyer&#8217;s charges to the client as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] court squarely rejected this argument, citing (among other authorities) ABA Formal Op. 08-451  for the proposition that an attorney may bill a contract lawyer&#8217;s charges to the client as [...]</p>
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